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a lot of queer people have kids

a lot of straight people (incl. couples) don’t

the only remarkable thing about these facts is how often they’re overlooked

a lot of straight people's parents are queer

a lot of queer people's parents are straight

queer community and queer spaces like pride aren't fully inclusive unless they're inclusive to people of all ages and backgrounds

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the last time i posted about this topic someone decided to launch a mini harassment campaign against me, claiming that i was being prejudiced against ace people (i'm ace) and their entire argument apparently revolved around the idea that ace people have mental health issues triggered by sexual content (some people are triggered by sexual content and some of those people are ace but statistically most are not; it's more commonly linked to rape trauma. i've had rape trauma)

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you might be wondering "what does that have to do with age-inclusivity??" and, please hold on one moment

i haven't spoken publicly about the mini harassment campaign against me bc a) i wanted to give the aggressor an opportunity to relent on their own, and b) i have difficulty presenting my ideas even when they're not under attack

but i wanted to take a moment to thank everyone who may have heard unfounded rumors about me and were gracious enough to let me to address the matter on my own time

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the last time i posted about this topic i led with the suggestion of a multi-faceted approach

not every aspect of the queer experience is appropriate for all audiences. really no one has to say "hey, let's establish a sense of context and space for the sensitive stuff so everyone is able to participate in queer community." it's extremely obvious

but based on how a lot of events like pride are organized, apparently someone does need to say it??

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queers,

let's confront a hard truth

we're not always the best at inclusivity

shocking, i know

of course the queer community is as rife with racism, classism, ableism, misogyny, xenophobia, etc. as the rest of the world

but we're also pretty much every flavor of queerphobic, transphobic, homophobic etc. too, we just don't always manifest in the same ways

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((wow messy personal drama *and* detailed emotional labor *and* lecturing about difficult topics?? this thread's really got it all 🙄 😳 😅 ))

here let's take a moment to enjoy this a delightful musical number to lighten the mood:

youtube.com/watch?v=G-9QCsH3OQ

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pride is a riot

so to be fair, it's rather impressive that it doesn't fail *more specctacularly* when a wildly diverse group of individuals come together to radically express themselves

like yeah there are huuuge opportunities for improvement, but i don't mean to sound overly critical of the people who are putting in the effort

we don't need *fewer* people dedicating time and energy towards those ends, quite the contrary

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if it would help to see a practical manifestation of the challenges of organizing queer community, let's look at abbreviations

LGBT
LGBTQ
LGBTIQ
LGBTQIA
LGBTQIAPN
MOGAI

being pan and nonbinary weren't just recently invented. in fact people have been pan and nonbinary since before gender existed

so why did people relatively recently start including them in the abbreviations

well i think there are a few factors that play into it

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the factor i'd like to highlight is relative sufficiency

it doesn't take a ton of social pressure to shove pan people into the bi box. like sure it's not a fully accurate descriptor for them, but the difference comes off as pedantic to a lot of people

likewise, cisnormativity is so pervasive you can just divvy up all the nonbinary people into L, G, B and T respectively based on the crude and meaningless opinions of bystanders

like obviously you shouldn't

but you could

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it's not that difficult to be exclusionary

marginalized folk are pretty used to getting overlooked, it's kind of their whole deal

any group of individuals will default to being exclusionary of concepts they do not collectively fully understand

the queer community needs everyone -- literally everyone -- to be as vocal as they are able about their needs w.r.t. inclusivity

we already know there are conflicts. conflicts are not bad. conflicts we can accommodate if we know and understand them

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when we are not able to be fully vocal about our needs, then we need other people to be vocal on our behalf

it's a slow and grinding process even in the absolute absence of ill will

i think a big part of the reason we've seen a great deal of upset in recent decades has been the radical advances in communication technologies that enable people to have these conversation on an overwhelmingly faster and greater scale than ever before in history

(the internet is making you pan instead of bi)

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((if i ever finish this thread it might end up the longest i ever write, gosh))

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if you have fresh-water fish and salt-water fish, inclusivity doesn't mean pouring both groups of fish into the same tank and making the water brackish

that's animal abuse

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inclusivity doesn't mean forcing everyone into one thing

in the face of conflicting needs from various parties, inclusivity necessarily means making enough space for everyone to feel supported and accommodated

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tbh it's not totally clear what needs to be said about this topic bc, again, when you step back and think about it, it's all pretty commonly sensible

i think sometimes a tragic desperation for solidarity could possibly compel people into an misguided deathhug, whereby they accidentally inflict more harm than good

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i guess the way to avoid situations like that is to,,, listen to people and believe people when they tell you what they need

don't try to convince people their needs are unreasonable or unimportant. you could be spending the same amount of time and energy talking to them about how to address those needs

and not to sound like a broken record, but just like stop and think about it for a minute??? it's kind of intuitive when you think about it

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also, not everyone's voices are heard equally

so if you're in a position to devote some energy towards helping others, take the time to understand the needs of those most marginalized or underserved by the status quo. amplify their voices as much as possible

i feel like i'm just spouting maxims at this point, but i guess it's all the sort of stuff that bears repeating

let's take another musical break:

youtube.com/watch?v=A8zIGKL48P

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@red In my limited understanding of providing safe spaces. I don't have to provide a safe place for white people and I cannot be racist against white people. Because racism is prejudice with power yes. So I don't have to provide safe places for white people in a gathering because you people come in and act as if god entered the room. Women don't have to provides safe places for men in their gatherings and until the power structures change I don't see the need. But nice of you to think of it.

@red am i right to assume it's the same fucked up people who are on my back cause they didn't like how i called out their genocide denialism?

@red do you think that for the sake of pragmatism we should just use LGBT+ in everyday conversation? And if not, pls explain, this is interesting

@red I won't complain. It is good to see this articulated clearly

@red enough space, yes, though, i guess sometimes it may be more helpful to formulate it as "enough different spaces"?

@tethre i don't see it as spaces plural bc i think everyone stays connected -- it's still one singular queer community. but yes the purpose of having enough space is to be as widely varied as everyone's different individual needs

also 'space' in this context is an abstract idea that doesn't really map to like euclidean geometry, so i guess it just depends on how you think about it 😅

@red yes. i get that! it was just about framing for me, and how communicating those individual spaces within that space explicitly makes the difference to the general space, that the kyriarchy tries to cram everybody in, more obvious, and thus hopefully those who have suffered from that heteronormative space feel more welcomed 🤷‍♀️

(does this heavily edited sentence still make sense?)

passing mention of pedophilia 

@red I tink the problem with LGBTQIAPN is that people have been out here tryna to claim the LGBTQIA+ community includes pedophiles for decades and as such the letter P is pretty strongly tainted by that context.

I mentioned adding P in a college course once and one of my classmate's first thought was pedos before they figured out I meant pans.

We can still add P, but that requires confronting that nonsense, and not everyone's got the spoons for that all the time.

@red I seem to miss a lot on here but it seems like you handled this a smart way.

@red

some people just come to party and they don't want to deal with any serious shit. i am not fan of this type of person.

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moon holiday

every day is a moon holiday when you're living in fully-automated luxury gay space communism. lets dance to honor our lesbian aunt the moon under the silver glow of her justice and grace